Viewing topic: Is anybody safe?

I've been following the story of BP's fate in Russia as Gazprom sets it's sights on devouring one more competing oil company. It seems that Russia's wrath has fallen not only on the foriegn oil companies but the poor souls who work for them. Not hesitating to use anything in their dirty bag of tricks, Russia has decided to 'idle' BP employee's work permits. Here's the story by Andrew E. Kramer of the New York Times, published March 26, 2008 (this is for citing purposes, I don't want to break any laws. Bobs12, you'll have to tell me if this is legitamate).

"BP’s regulatory troubles in Russia deepened this week as authorities idled 148 expatriate engineers and geologists in a dispute over the legality of their work permits. Last week, BP’s joint venture in Russia, TNK-BP, was confronted with charges an employee engaged in industrial espionage and the announcement of an environmental inspection at its largest oil field. TNK-BP is in a dispute with Gazprom, the Russian state gas company, over the terms of sale of a large gas field in Siberia."

So can lowly English teachers expect this kind of scrutiny in the future too? I would hate to be accused of espionage or being a spy.

I actually wanted to write a bit of fiction on that very motive no worries - can't get in trouble for citing news stories although that sort of stuff is unlikely to happen to English teachers en-masse, look what happened in the British Council not so long ago...

I'll have to find out about the British Council, I don't know that story yet. I don't want to go making false judgments about Russia as a whole, all the people I've met from there are nice, but it seems that the current government is determined to rebuild the iron curtain. Do you ever encounter sentiments of distrust when dealing with the bureaucracy there? or among the people? Maybe the international news media has twisted my mind with its stories of political suppression and 'nashee' youth groups roaming the streets chanting anti-American slogans. You're there on the ground bobs12, whats your take on all this?

I am sure that bobs12 will happpen along with his views soon...

However, my view is that there are no real sentiments of mistrust when dealing with bureaucracy here and any sensible foreigner tries to minimise such contacts anyway. But I have never really felt that anybody I have had to deal with is secretly mulling over the idea that I might be a spy!!

What I can say though, is that they do treat us totally without bias - the same surly manner and exactly the same unhelpfulness as the Russians get!!! - Predominantly service with a scowl in most official places - but that is, I have to say, quite normal in Russia....

Most of the 'everyday' people are quite normal and friendly, particularly the younger ones, but also many of the middle age group. All of my students are great and really nice people - but I probably have a slight advantage as I can choose who I teach and I wouldn't teach anyone I didn't really like

You could well be a victim of the selectivity of the media, Taylor. Sure, we have a significant racism problem in Russia and particularly in the larger cities. But I also have to say that the world media, of course, selects the most newsworthy events, ie: usually bad news and the way that some of the events are reported puts a rather unfair slant on what real life is like here. I am in St Petersburg and have been here for some years. It may have its bad points but what city doesn't? And if I didn't like it then I am sure that I wouldn't be here.

But, there again, what sort of impression would a Russian person get if they were to tune into the news bulletins of other countries... Riots, strikes, racism, murders etc etc...

So, if anyone IS considering visiting Russia, maybe even in the longer term - Don't be put off by everything that you read or hear...

Yep, pretty much all the stuff you're seeing in the news is political.

It's negative coverage of Russia (think anti-Russian propaganda - it takes at least two to draw an Iron Curtain) plus it's all at political levels.

Nobody I know in Russia would be equivalent to a 'Sun reader' or whatever and all are either unaware that they are supposed to hold anti-foreigner sentiments, or they just can't be arsed. They've come a long way from Soviet times - you'll never get the same cat into the same bag twice.

Thugs and racist violence - yep, it exists and *real* decent Russian people are appalled by it too. There is a massive antifascist movement in Russia - their peaceful marches and gatherings are dealt with heavy-handedly by police.

Fascists and racist violence - sadly, yes, they exist. But they exist everywhere else, I think. It's a sad thing that while I can comfortably walk around, anyone of non-European (non-white) appearance is at considerable risk of violence and abuse, not just from thugs.

There are bigoted arseholes here as everywhere else - their sentiments are mainly against southern folks and Asians (that cat still hasn't got out of the bag yet, admittedly). That you'll see often - old women hassling young dark-skinned kids on the metro is the lighter end of the scale.

As for the spying nonsense - I work in a company where I have a perfect opportunity for spying. Not just at industrial level, but even to some extent at governemtal level! (true) - and... my colleagues just laugh about it, occasionally asking whether I can get them jobs at MI5 as well. The funniest thing is that I'm probably one of very few 'employees' who hasn't signed an NDA and promised on pain of death not to give away secrets.

My neighbours are great - they are just ordinary, intelligent people. I've never had any anti-foreigner sentiment thrust my way except by the surly babushkas that control entry to certain tourist attractions. For that reason, I mostly stay away from tourist attractions - they leave a certain sour taste in the mouth. One guy from upstairs has a daughter (or niece, I forget) in the UK. The guys that work on the parking compound where my gf keeps her car would keep me chatting all day if they could (one is an ex-English teacher, his friend knows a bit of English and in general would just talk the hind legs off a mule without breaking a sweat).

Being foreign doesn't get you any special bad treatment - Russians get it just as bad (bureaucratically).

I just spent a whole day getting a car registered - paperwork, paperwork, paperwork. If Russians want a smile from the person taking or handing out form 97a#1.5 they'll have to tickle them with a long feather.

Russians also have bureaucratic hassle with personal registration - there is no freedom of movement. If they go from one city to another, they should register if they stay there for more than a certain number of days.

No matter whether you're Russian or foreign or black, white, green or a tasty shade of lilac, you still need to have form 63f#1/3.04 stamped and signed in triplicate, notarised, copied and filed along with copies of your passport, birth certificate, title deeds and a matte black-and-white photo exactly 4cm by 5cm accompanied an official letter of authenticity from your regional passport office before you can so much as break wind officially.

Nothing to worry about. Come aboard the Mothership, where everyone has the same sinking feeling all over again

Thank you for the quality reporting. There is always a disconnect between people and their governments, its just hard to say where it is. Racism is really just unavoidable and it is as much of a truth here in America as anywhere else. As for the thugs and gangs, I haven't heard too much about them but I live in the most violent city in the US so I've got the idea which is pretty much stay away from the ghetto and you're alright. And St. Petersburg sounds sort of like a place a little apart from the rest of Russia (historically too) with its long tradition of art and literature. I do look forward to wandering the streets that inspired Dostoyevsky.
What is all this about having to have your birth certificate on file? All that on top of just having to get the visa?
I'll try not to get to worried by media hype but there is a lot of it with the elections being the number one non-stop news story. John McCain is now saying he wants to kick Russia out of the G8. Their speeches just get more inflated as this process drags on (oh wait, it goes on for another 7 months).
Well, it will take a lot more than some NY Times stories to keep from going through with this. I got my resume out (and I'm fortunate to have a friend gathering info for me on you side, not that you don't do a great job bobs) and I'm looking forward to diving headfirst into the visa bureaucracy.
thanks again

"it takes two to make an iron curtain"

very insightful

I think that bobs12 was gettinga bit into the realms of poetic licence on that one.... I, personally, have never had to supply a copy of my birth certificate for anything here...

All other documents in quintuplicate - but never my birth cert....

Er, yes, sorry, got a bit carried away - as far as I know, you can break wind without going through all that bureaucratic nonsense, and yes, I've never needed my birth certificate here (I don't think BC's have any real meaning in foreign systems anyway, though I may be wrong).

I should have added that people's experiences in Russia will really depend on their own attitude and approach and prejudices towards the country and its people. Too many foreigners come over thinking they're kings of the coop, strut around a bit and then get beaten up/mugged/whatever and run home, squealing all the way about what an evil place Russia is.

#1 - sticking out in public as a foreigner makes you a definite target for robbery/muggery/other unpleasant things that otherwise happen to Russians as well; foreigners are just easier to pull it off on

#2 - talking in English in public above the ambient level of conversation is going to get you as much attention (well, a little more) than it would a Russian talking equally loud. It's not necessary, and it often results in unpleasantries (Russians don't like people who talk unnecessarily loudly in public - it's unnecessary, and I think it's considered pretty rude, as it is elsewhere. For some reason, a lot of people seem to think that in order to understand each other in a foreign country, they have to talk louder than the ambient level of non-English speech.)

#3 - treating Russia and Russians with humility and respect is key to getting along well (see point 1). Russians best like foreigners when they:
a) try to 'fit in' and adapt to Russian ways of life (not always, admittedly - there are some creepy Russians that like foreigners very much, expect them to be little islands of foreignness, prefer to believe that they can't understand a word of Russian, never watch Russian TV, don't eat Russian food, etc. etc. - there are a few Russian people like this, I can't explain them. Steer clear of them, they freak me out with their weirdo fantasies.)

b) admire and express your admiration for the things that Russians hold dear - the awesome size of the country, the unique character of the people, the 'mysteries of the Russian soul', Pushkin, Dostoevsky, blah blah blah

c) don't complain about problems that affect you as a foreigner unless invited to, and don't go on too much about them even if you are. In fact don't bring up the matter of problems (social/political etc.) anyway - Russians, even the nice, educated ones, reserve these rights for themselves. Just agree with whatever Russians say until you get the 'feel' for what is and isn't acceptable. If you must comment on problems, be conservative and in any case steer the conversation to express your sympathy for Russians and your admiration for how they tough their problems out. I just this minute had a nasty spat with my gf because I was complaining too much. She's in tears about it, I kid you not. I don't have that right (at least, I can't push it too far) even in my own home.

d) eat pelmeni with smetana. Trust me, you'll grow to love it.

#4 - sit on the political fence. Russians still have some very deep-seated fears/prejudices/etc. etc. about politics. Don't argue. Also, when they tell you all the stuff that Russians invented first... just say, 'oh, how amazing, what a wonderful country, etc. etc.'

#5 - don't talk about religion unless you know for sure that you're in good company.